Robert
Member
Posts: 116
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Classic Titles that Have Never Been "Mastered"
on 6/18/2013 2:15:19 AM
I know this topic has been discussed many times before over the years, but as time marches on and players persevere, the list grows smaller and smaller...such as how "Joust 2" is no longer part of the list ever since players have taken it first to the level 100 mark (Dwayne Richard) and then well beyond (Robert Griffin).
Even so, a few titles come immediately to mind where no matter how hard top players have tried there are no "masters" of the title. Great players, perhaps, but no definitive "masters".
I'll start with a few.
Rally-X - no one has ever reached the 250K mark on the arcade classic, and on MAME the highest score is hovering around the 200K mark. This is a most unforgiving title and even the best players cannot and do not score over 100K consistently.
Crazy Climber - no one has ever figured out how to consistently predict which side the girders fall, thus making games that reach level 8 exceptionally rare indeed never mind beyond. Until that secret is uncovered this title will never, ever be mastered...and if there is no "secret", meaning that the side it falls is purely random, then odds are no one can ever master the title no matter how hard they try.
Super Cobra - Don Hayes and I have been struggling with this title for many years now. He reached the end of level 5, I reached the end of level 4. Yet the absolute best performance would result in someone reaching level 8 and getting to the maze stage. That means only dying due to unavoidable fuel run out.
Now these next two are debatable...
Sinistar - what determines a "master" on this title ? A million points ? 800K ? Very hard to say as this title will never, ever be marathoned even though in theory it could be...by a computer, perhaps !! So is there a rue master at the title ? Hard to say.
Major Havoc - this one might already have a master, I'm not sure, but has anyone finished the game...ever ? I heard stories that people have but never saw a complete performance myself...not even on YouTube.
Just these few for now...curious how everyone else feels.
Robert
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Steve W
Member
Posts: 157
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RE: Classic Titles that Have Never Been "Mastered"
on 6/18/2013 7:10:19 AM
That's a good list Robert. I asked Don Hodges once to look at the Crazy Climber code and evaluate some things in the game but he was too busy at the time and that was some years back. I hope that someone is able to deconstruct it some day as I'm curious myself how situations are determined.
I've gotten a 368k on Sinistar on TGTS settings and I would not say I am close at all to mastering the game. I think part of that is how luck seems to play a large role in how far you can carry a given game despite your best efforts. I've had games ranging from dying on the first screen to carrying one ship for 300k points as recently as last month. It's so insanely random and difficult you have no idea how any given game will end up going. That makes it such a good tournament game though.
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CKFan
Admin
Posts: 65
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RE: Classic Titles that Have Never Been "Mastered"
on 6/18/2013 11:37:39 AM
There's a guy over on KLOV that's insanely good at Crazy Climber. His top is 600K, but the last game he posted a screenshot of, was 598500. Said he died on buildings 3, 4, 8 and 12 (he didn't say, but I'm guessing the last 3 are from the death sign ;) )
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SanTe
Admin
Posts: 31
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RE: Classic Titles that Have Never Been "Mastered"
on 6/18/2013 11:39:14 AM
Robert Wrote:
Crazy Climber - no one has ever figured out how to consistently predict which side the girders fall, thus making games that reach level 8 exceptionally rare indeed never mind beyond. Until that secret is uncovered this title will never, ever be mastered...and if there is no "secret", meaning that the side it falls is purely random, then odds are no one can ever master the title no matter how hard they try. |
kstillin on the KLOV forums is a 600k player, which if memory serves is building 12 or better, and has posted screenshots of his high scores. There was a good Crazy Climber competition going on KLOV there for a while. No, you can't predict which side the girder falls on but it is possible to survive a direct hit and keep climbing, and there is video footage available showing it happening. It's very tough to do and takes excellent timing but it has been done multiple times in one game before. I believe the buildings repeat and don't get tougher, so it all comes down to surviving girder hits. There was an 800k+ MAME game on YouTube at one point (maybe it's still there, I dunno) but it just spawned a long debate about whether or not it was fake, i.e. tool assisted. Robert Wrote:
Sinistar - what determines a "master" on this title ? A million points ? 800K ? Very hard to say as this title will never, ever be marathoned even though in theory it could be...by a computer, perhaps !! So is there a rue master at the title ? Hard to say. |
Similarly, there was a KLOV forum member who posted a screenshot a few years ago of his 1M score on this title, side-by-side with a screen shot from the TG standings showing the rules/settings. I don't remember if it was ever proven that he actually played on the correct settings though. Obviously he never submitted it or we would have heard about it.
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Robert
Member
Posts: 116
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RE: Classic Titles that Have Never Been "Mastered"
on 6/18/2013 10:54:04 PM
If the direction of the girders is totally random, then odds are that the more games you play which last awhile, sooner or later you will have a few where you "guess" correctly (and survive) long enough to reach stages 9-12, statistically speaking.
Same logic applies to playing sufficient "Ms Pacman" games with respect to the cumulative value of fruits in a game that reaches the kill screen...although the way Abdner has been playing these past few years even this may not be enough to catch him !!
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