Proposition - "the players show up, sign in, get their own tokens and play all they want. At the end the winners get a trophy and nothing more. No prize money."

Definite Outcome(1) -

Income = 0
Expense = trophy cost, referee/volunteer cost, cost to David Hernley to fly out the Aurcade system for the event, cost to ACAM staff to test/fix/vette titles prior to event, cost to ACAM staff to move titles to a concentrated area, cleanup costs
Result (1) = net loss for ACAM

Probable Outcome (2) -

No prize = Less attendees BUT same amount of effort/cost invested into setting up event
Result (2a) = a lot of effort for a smaller audience
Result (2b) = less income from end-of-event raffle

That comes off the top of my head as guesses.

Just to put some perspective on costs...pure speculation of course.

Tourney refs - suppose you require three (3) referee volunteers for the event, Now suppose for sake of argument they get paid minimum wage of $7.25/hr. Now I believe that the event starts at noon on Thursday and lasts for approx. 10 hours on that day and either 11 or 12 on Fri/Sat leaving perhaps 7-8 hours on Sunday.

That is a total of approx. 40 hours. Multiply that by 3 referees at $7.25/hr and the total cost for the refs alone is $870

ACAM gives everyone a complimentary allotment of 100 tokens. At peak value this is worth $20 right there because every token used contributes to wear and tear on the games.

ACAM also utilizes additional resources prior to an event outside of Randy Lawton, their primary technician, to help get things ready, and that comes at a cost as well, and trust me it is not at $7.25/hr either.

An entrance fee of just $30 BARELY covers the costs of the volunteer staff and the tokens. One hundred attendees means $3000 income versus $2870 expenses from 3 ref volunteers at minimum wage and $20 in tokens alone.

I agree with SanTe...a fee of $30.00 is MORE than generous. I'd be happy to pay $75-100...after all, where else for $25 per day can you have that much fun alongside so many friends and community members in your hobby for four whole days ? Disney is $200 per day or more per person including fast passes.

ACAM also greatly appreciates any kiosk donations. The more attendees, the more chances for donations.

The flip-side is having too MANY attendees. Suppose registration was free and as a result 250 attendees showed up. If you thought qualifying on all event titles was difficult before you ain't seen nothing yet...and on top of that this would mean twice the wear and tear on the games and zero coming in towards R&M costs (repairs & maint).

Robert

Robert Wrote: Just to put some perspective on costs...pure speculation of course. Tourney refs - suppose you require three (3) referee volunteers for the event, Now suppose for sake of argument they get paid minimum wage of $7.25/hr. Now I believe that the event starts at noon on Thursday and lasts for approx. 10 hours on that day and either 11 or 12 on Fri/Sat leaving perhaps 7-8 hours on Sunday. That is a total of approx. 40 hours. Multiply that by 3 referees at $7.25/hr and the total cost for the refs alone is $870 ACAM gives everyone a complimentary allotment of 100 tokens. At peak value this is worth $20 right there because every token used contributes to wear and tear on the games.

Me personally, I am a ref that also participated in the tourney. Sometimes I step away from the tourney to watch scores going on elsewhere in the museum. I started to see some point pressing on Ghosts & Goblins, but he said he had scored much higher previously already. I know it is labor of love for me. :) Oh, btw, the Funspot refs only work 5 hours Sunday.

While it is true ACAM does give out a cup of 100 tokens, they also give out two $20 gift cards which are then redeemed for more tokens, so the actual virtual token amount each participant gets is about 300.

The biggest issue I see here is that everybody thinks this is an ACAM fundraising event. This is a Funspot event that ACAM is a sponsor of. ACAM provides the game selection and it's board members and volunteers to help with check in, score keeping and securing new games. Funspot gets all the funds and provides all the prizes, ACAM gets what ever shows up in the donation box and it unfortunately at this event hasn't been much. Tons of work gets done by the ACAM staffers and volunteers for the reward of gamers happiness of which there also hasn't been much of the last few years.

If your interested in making sure ACAM is funded, we do Bingo games on Thursday that is our primary fundraising source or donations can be made on the website and donation kiosk. None of the tokens purchases or anything else in the building goes to ACAM so your donations really help keep ACAM alive.

Need more vendors. Tshirts and posters etc. Oh and beer

1badv6 Wrote: The biggest issue I see here is that everybody thinks this is an ACAM fundraising event. This is a Funspot event that ACAM is a sponsor of. ACAM provides the game selection and it's board members and volunteers to help with check in, score keeping and securing new games. Funspot gets all the funds and provides all the prizes, ACAM gets what ever shows up in the donation box and it unfortunately at this event hasn't been much. Tons of work gets done by the ACAM staffers and volunteers for the reward of gamers happiness of which there also hasn't been much of the last few years. If your interested in making sure ACAM is funded, we do Bingo games on Thursday that is our primary fundraising source or donations can be made on the website and donation kiosk. None of the tokens purchases or anything else in the building goes to ACAM so your donations really help keep ACAM alive.

If this is in fact how the money works then I think 1badv6 really has identified the biggest problem: most people think that the tournament entry fee they pay goes to ACAM when it does not. I know I didn't know that until now. This means that out-of-pocket donations to ACAM are even more important than most people realize.

bestcellar Wrote: If anything, the entry fee should be higher. I thought it was a great deal considering all the costs.

redelf Wrote: The cost of the tourney should be higher, or the amount of tokens they give you for your entry should be lower. The tourney is free as it stands now, pay $60 and get $60 worth of tokens, a shirt and some other stuff. If you want you can just play games and you can even play the tourney games. It allows you a chance to win money for getting high score on a game that you love or know very well. You get to hang out with a great group of people, talk about games.

If what we're worried about is that ACAM is adequately funded then we shouldn't be focused on the tournament entry fee at all. I'm just speculating here but it sounds like the tournament entry fee was raised to accomplish a number of things: 1) cover rising ancillary costs of hosting the tournament, 2) provide for cash prizes and additional "freebies" like T-shirts, etc., that come with playing in the tournament, and 3) keep the number of registered participants reasonable so that there aren't too many players trying to qualify on too few games (i.e. if it was free you'd have 200+ participants).

Whatever the reasons for the tournament entry fee being what it is, apparently ACAM gets none of it. That donation box, both real and virtual (on ACAM's web page) needs to be added to on at least a semi-regular basis, and we all need to understand the importance of doing so.

I just started a new career (semi truck driver) and my cash flow is still kinda tight and will be for the next few months, but I intend to make a new donation of at least $100 by this fall sometime. Even better would be if people would make regular quarterly donations of whatever they can afford, even if it's just $25, which is the cost of a decent pizza. The more of us that do that the fewer dollars that need to come from each of us. As soon as I get my cash flow straightened out I intend to start making quarterly donations on ACAM's web site, and I've just set up a quarterly reminder in Outlook for it. I'm gonna shoot for $100 each time. I've made donations in the past but they've been irregular in their frequency.

redelf Wrote: I just hope that someday someone that has a passion for arcade games will win the lottery and make a significant donation to ACAM so that it can continue to make people happy that can't get enough of the arcade scene.

I really need to start buying lottery tickets. I know ACAM wouldn't have to worry about anything for decades to come if I ever won a million dollar payout.

redelf Wrote: I'm very happy that ACAM has some great people in it's mist, they go out of their way to make a great event happen, they do alot of events and donate a lot of their time to make others happy.

Seconded. They really don't get thanked enough. Wish I could make it back out there for the tournament someday. Still hope to.

What we need here is more cow bell

Rob Ross Wrote: How is the income = 0? The players would walk in and place money in the machines to get tokens to use in the tourney for 4 days. THAT IS INCOME! Yes there would be a trophy cost. So are the refs/volunteers being paid? I've never heard a definitive answer on that one. I thought "volunteering" meant to volunteer time for free to help out. I'd work an iPad for a few shifts for free if ACAM needed help. Is David Hernly paid to travel and work the tourney? That's news to me. Cost to test and vet games? I've been told, several times over, that a group of players comes in to ACAM weeks before the tourney and plays every single game to find problems. I was under the assumption that this was done for free and was not a tourney expense. Cost to move titles to a concentrated area? Again, I would do this for free if asked. I don't see how dollying 20 games can be listed as an expense here. Cleanup costs? What does this include? Isn't there staff already in the building to do general cleanup. Once again I'd help for free and maybe other gamers would join my lead. Anyway, the point being, if there was no entry fee and no prize money wouldn't all our $20 bills to get tokens for the tourney make the building more money on this event? Food for thought.

Well Rob you can come down to Funspot and spend your money any day and I'll be happy to give you a gold star each time you get a score. Does that sound like a fun time for you to travel? Do you think someone would come 1000's of mile for a trophy? If there was no prizes this event would become a very locals only event.

Yes Funspot Ref's get paid, ACAM volunteers do not but that being said there isn't many of us.

Cost to test and vet games. YES there is a cost, how many new games did you see? Do you think we paraded all the local gamers in to see all the new "mystery" games before the tournament to test them? No Funspot staff had that job and yes they get paid.

Cost to move the 20 games? Yep again Funspot staff has to be there to secure the building, clear the parking lot of gamers trying to gain an advantage by cheating and sneaking a peek at the games before the tournament begins and of course move games. All of this happens after hours by Funspot staff and yes they get paid. There is some volunteers that do help but again our numbers are few.

In all though you're right about putting $20 in a token machine does make money for Funspot. But think about it how many gamers actually use a full $20 in tokens those 4 days? Funspot sells you $60 in tokens as it is now by the entry fee. Why would Funspot want to change that. Think of it as a cover charge. Yes you can make money selling the tokens but some people will always need less. The entry fee makes sure everyone gets a minimum.

I hide in the ceiling every year, just so I can get a sneak peek at the games giving me the upper hand.

What Robbie didn't say was that he's hiding in the ceiling above the bathrooms to sneak peeks. He calls that game Cheeky Tinkle.

Seriously though, if the tourney organizers require setup, scoring or tear down help, they should put out the word cuz some of us would be more than happy.

The Bicknells and myself were out front this year first thing in the morning (as we always are with our coffees and tall tales) and we lent a hand bringing in the stage for the chip tunes bands.

And don't forget my movie Pacific Rim comes out in less than a month. You all better go see it, support it and love it on July 12.